Ok I will bite. How can you be a “very much divided society” if “99%” of the people are the same thing?

I dont really understand why this on science news website , but go Turkey . Do you know you can still be pious without dressing like a ninja ?

I find it intriguing that people think that donning a headscarf limits one’s freedom.
How about those who love n enjoy wearing the headscarf? No one compelled me to wear it.
Forcing me NOT to wear limits my freedom.
It’s time to widen one’s perspective. Many Muslim women in Asian countries enjoy wearing the hijab.
It gives a sense of security. It is a fashion. We enjoy styling the head gear n even JOIN classes
Just to keep up with the latest trends. Think about it. Will people be going to classes out of their own will
If it’s something that they hate to wear.
Please put on ur thinking caps. If freedom is what u seek, then giving us the liberty to wear what we Muslim girls want to wear, is the way to go. Restricting ones dressing, forcing one out of hijab is in no way freedom to those who love wearing headscarf is in itself limiting freedom.

ane2sa may i ask what kind of security does wearing a head gear gives ? not being gang raped by bunch of angry Muslim men security ?
“A Muslim sheik told followers at a public meeting in Bankstown that women who were raped had incited men’s lust by dressing immodestly and only had themselves to blame.” Is this kind of security you are talking about ?
p.s.
you spell you with y , o , u , not u .

Wow, lots of Islamophobia out there. Do we restrict Jewish women from wearing wigs because it is against their religion to have their hair seen by outsiders? Do we restrict Jewish men from wearing a Yamaka (sp?) because that is their religious preference? What about nuns habits or priests robes? Or crazy fanatic sects that believe women have to wear ankle length dresses? Dred locks? Many Hindi or Pakistani men wear turbans. Come on. If Muslim women want to wear a headscarf, it is absolutely within their right to do so. And restricting it is just a bunch of western men telling women what they can or cannot do rather than a bunch of eastern men telling them. Let’s let women make their own decisions on their own attire, thank you.

Well K. Sweetman Islamists states have no problem with forcing western or liberal muslim women wear ninja robs . I dont see why western or secular states cannot dictate the attire rules on their OWN territory. Most Jews only wear skull caps in special places , nuns are members of clergy and are not members of general public. Its obvious that secularization is very important issue for the Turks . It is their state right to dictate social policy . That said people really should stop using ridiculous band wagon arguments. Also nice try with with ad hominem attack .

Alex, people like you make me sick. What does it matter to you what other people wear? Would it offend you if I wore a headscarf given that I’m not Muslim? Where do these restrictions you place on your fellow men end? K. Sweetman, you have nailed it, religion aside what about all the various things people wear to denote their social leanings and personal identities – they’re all sides of the same coin and are often a lot more in your face than a simple headscarf. ane2sa, I definitely see where you’re coming from with the fashion argument, recently, in my city, I have noticed that many girls are wearing elaborate headscarves that are wrapped around their heads several times. This definitely looks like a fashion statement to me and a very elegant one, especially when you compare it to the midriff-baring crop tops that seem to be back in fashion this year. As far as Turkey goes, if most of the population are Muslim, isn’t this ban just a way of saying ‘We don’t want women in these jobs’? I can understand why employers may not want their employees wearing the hijab (or ninja rob [sic] as you so eloquently put it Alex), although I don’t agree with it, but a headscarf? No way. Wake up Turkey!

Thanks kimbee and and k.sweetman.
Its good to know that some people do understand.
Have a great day =)

This is a great problem but, IMHO, tthis is a problem related with muslim men NOT WOMEN. Women feel disconfortable wearing no headcarves because muslim men feels disconfortable if their women don’t wear it. Typical muslim man feel s that if their woman don’t wear it are somewhat “naked” and woman wear it because their men are happy with!

You too ane2sa :)

I don’t see why people should dress respecting their religious code when at work, I like being a nudist, I don’t come to work naked. If I go to the public administration, I find it disturbing to see a public servant with whatever they think some imaginary friend tells them to wear in front of me, if I want to see a monk or a nun, I will go to a monastery, not a city hall, thank you. As for women wearing a hijab in public spaces, I am sorry again, but not seeing someone face in the streets is not the most secure feeling in the world, no ninja in the streets, except during carnival.

Freedom for women. That is a difficult way to put it, how free are women who decide to wear the hijab in a community where women with a face are treated of prostitutes or systematically harrassed? How free is a convert, living in a free society where she chose it? Maybe that is also the problem of the kind of testimonies we can get. For one convert who chose, how many are forced by society/family/husband/tradition/violence?

Some say that the veil/hijab is an excuse to get out of the house, but some will also say that women can use the official ban to be able to actually get out of the house without a veil/hijab. So this argument misses the point, whatever we do as a society, I think that religious zealotry should not be part of governemental jobs (private companies should decide on their own dress codes) AND that in public spaces, people actually appear with their faces for security reasons…

The title of the article is misleading, how limiting freedom? For people that are choosing to look devout at work? Why would they do that? If this piece of tissu is more important than a career, then again, why not being a lawyer and going naked or dressed like a clown to court if it’s my religion? Will the work dress code restrict me from my liberties?

Tomasz – if nudism were part of a religion followed by millions of people across the globe maybe it would be more acceptable in public/work, you can’t really compare the two when the conditions are so different. I agree that some (not the majority) Muslim women may be considered to have different rights that are dictated by their culture and think that these women should be helped to gain the respect and rights deserved by all people. Is it such a big deal then to allow these women to wear headscarves/veils etc. in order to help them attain that? Do you feel the same way about a Sikh man wearing a turban? Different cultures have different standards, which is a good thing or else the world would be a very boring place. These differences should not be used for discrimination, discriminating against people because of their choice of clothing is only a few steps away from discriminating against someone because of their race.

This is not a scientific article; it is political! What is it doing on this web site? As for my two cents, I’ll be concerned about the religious freedom of muslims when I see them concerned about the religious freedom of others!

kimbee

“if nudism were part of a religion followed by millions of people across the globe maybe it would be more acceptable in public/work” That is my point, religion allows exception to the rule.

“Do you feel the same way about a Sikh man wearing a turban?” Yes I do. And again, I don’t mind people getting dressed as they want, provided that it doesn’t step on organizing principles of society (in public, we need to see a face for security reasons, at work, depending on dress codes established by the company)

“discriminating against people because of their choice of clothing is only a few steps away from discriminating against someone because of their race” No, it is not, clothing is not a skin…

ed
I do agree, this is a political article, nothing to do with science and the title is misleading (ban on headscarves may limit freedoms).
“I’ll be concerned about the religious freedom of muslims when I see them concerned about the religious freedom of others” That is quite rude but that is also my concern, what are the possibilities of living your religion freely in Saudi Arabia, Soudan, Afghanistan, Iran? What if a muslim woman decides to not wear the headscarve?

To have a non biased article on the subject, it would be necessary to have a complete overview of headscarves and women rights (where it is actually forbidden, for what reason, what are the consequences and where it is actually mandatory, for what reason and what are the consequences?)

Tomasz – in response:

‘ “if nudism were part of a religion followed by millions of people across the globe maybe it would be more acceptable in public/work” That is my point, religion allows exception to the rule. ‘ – Except it’s not just religion is it? Traditions, local culture, fashions, they all have an effect on what people wear! There’s a penis festival that happens in Japan, people dress up as penises, children included. That probably seems strange to most people, but it’s perfectly normal to the people who take part. Different people do things differently, that’s the way it is! And what rule? Where is there a rulebook of what you can and can’t wear?!

‘ “Do you feel the same way about a Sikh man wearing a turban?” Yes I do. And again, I don’t mind people getting dressed as they want, provided that it doesn’t step on organizing principles of society (in public, we need to see a face for security reasons, at work, depending on dress codes established by the company) ‘ – What do you mean you ‘don’t mind people getting dressed as they want’? You clearly do or else you wouldn’t have a problem with people wearing headscarves and turbans to work! Turbans and headscarves don’t cover peoples faces, the hijab isn’t really related to this.

‘ “discriminating against people because of their choice of clothing is only a few steps away from discriminating against someone because of their race” No, it is not, clothing is not a skin… ‘ – No, you are correct, it is not skin. Clothing is just a few cms away from skin just as discrimination due to choice of clothing is a few steps away from racism, especially when that choice of clothing is particular to an ethnic group i.e. Muslim people.

I’m glad to know that i still make libtards such as yourself sick . Its one of those little things that make life great . I know thinking is liberal forte , but let me clarify few thins . First I do not put restrictions on fellow men . Turks and European states are the ones who are putting restriction , i think its a good idea. Each state has its right to dictate appropriate uniform for its public servant ,etc . Also I’m tired of people speaking from their back side not fully aware of situation . Turks were making a strong push for past 100 years to become westernized . They were first Muslim nation to ban polygamy , institute universal education that included women , etc . Clearly creating a secular society and weakening dogmatic , religious looney influence is important issue for the Turks . Head scarf symbolizes the old dogma . By attacking symbols of old influence society can change its outlook . As for Europe ban of head scarf is also important . It reminds people that this is EUROPE not saudi arabie . And they will not have their muslim khalifat set up there .

ISLAM is not a race . Are you people completely divorced from reality ?

Libtard, Alex? Oh very amusing, well done. Thank you for the information, however I have spent quite some time traveling around Europe and the Middle East and lived in Turkey for 18 months, I actually feel rather well informed.

Kimbee

“There’s a penis festival that happens in Japan, people dress up as penises, children included. That probably seems strange to most people, but it’s perfectly normal to the people who take part.” That’s what I said in the beginning, hijab in public should be allowed for carnival not for everyday life. In public, we shall see a human being with a face.

“You clearly do or else you wouldn’t have a problem with people wearing headscarves and turbans to work!” That’s also what I am saying, I don’t mind people dressing how they want, except that at work, you will always have a dress code. Get the difference? The work place (or governmental job) is not a place for religious zealotry. It is a place for working regardless of what your colleague believes or doesn’t believe.

“especially when that choice of clothing is particular to an ethnic group i.e. Muslim people” Ethnic group? Really? So being muslim is being part of a race? Which one? The arabs? What if the majority of the muslims in the world today are non arabs? What if an arab is christian or atheist? So no, this is not a race or ethnicity issue, it is an ideology with multiple faces…

kimbee . I lived in middle east for 12 years and im from Europe .

dear all,
hijab does allow the woman’s face to be seen.
the niqab on the other hand is one whereby the person covers her face.
please get the facts right before throwing in opinions..

Ah, thanks for the clarification ane2sa!

Alex – I live in Europe, we have so much in common! We should go out on a date sometime!

Hijab doesn’t limit ones freedom at all :)

http://www.HijabGirl.com
http://www.HijabGirl.co.uk